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User talk:Time Lord Enthusiast/The Master's Timeline
14th? 15th? What people forget is that the 14th Master is professor Yana. Harold Saxon is the 15th. Peter Pratt is also clearly the same incarnation as Delgado, just badly burned. Similarly, Ainley and Roberts are just Delgado having possessed/taken over/hijacked the bodies of others. So a possible Timeline could be this: 01)The Young Master(William Hughes) as seen in The Sound of Drums 02)Magnus in Flashback aka The War Chief(Edward Brayshaw) in The War Games 02a)Doktor Felix Kriegslieter in Timewyrm:Exodus. It is clearly stated that the regeneration from Brayshaw was aborted, and not a succes. However, at the end of Timewyrm:Exodus, Kiregslieter is said to regenerate into a "dark and satanically handsome man", namely... 03)Koschei in The Dark Path. This and 04 - 12) are all lost trying to escape the temporal trap. 13)The Master(Roger Delgado), first seen in Terror of the Autons. The novelisation of Autons clearly states this is the first incarnation of this Time Lord to call himself "The Master". This Delgado master appears in several television serials, books, comics. However, as noted earlier, this incarnation suvives the Delgado body, but not successfully at first... 13a)'The decayed version in The Deadly Assassin(Peter Pratt) is able to partially restore his body to 13b)The slightly-less decayed version first seen on televison in The Keeper or Traken(Geoffrey Beevers). However he chronogically appeared first in a print story with the Second Doctor, as well as appearing in Fourth Doctor BBC Audios. He successfully takes over the body of a Trakenite, becoming... 13c)The Tremas Master(Anthony Ainley), first seen at the very end of The Keeper of Traken. Appeared in several television serials, comics, novels and books. The Timeline works here in that at the end of Survival, this incarnation goes on to the BBC Books as the desperate Master, however he goes to the Tzun after the BBC Books becoming... 13d)The Basil Rathbone Master of The Virgin Books. However, the "Basil Rathbone" incarnation proves similarly unstable and he is forced to try and get hely by way of the Warp Core. This doesn't go as he had wished though as he reverts to... 13e)The decayed Master first seen(again) in Dust Breeding(Geoffrey Beevers). He does however manage to acquire a new body... 13f)The Other Doctor(Alexander Macqueen) in UNIT:Dominion. This is no more stable, so he is forced to work with The Daleks and a Morpahnt Deathworm. The incanartion at the beginning of The TV Movie(Gordon Tipple) is this same incarnation. It is "destroyed" however, and The Master takes over the body of an ambulance driver. 13g)The Bruce Master(Eric Roberts) in The TV Movie. This incarnation is seemingly destroyed, however.... 13h)The Master in the TARDIS Console who talks to The Doctor in some of the BBC Books. This 'incarnation' is seemingly destroyed, but manages to escape and take over the body of a homeless preacher... 13i)The Preacher Master'as seen in the DWM Comics. This body proves no more stable, however. However The Master is offered a new regenerative cycle by the Time Lords if he fights in The Second War in Heaven on their side. he accepts, and regenerates into... 14)'The Man with the Rosette who if only one of four Time Lords who survives the Second War in Heaven. However, the Doctor restores Gallifrey. The Master is once again conscripted by the Time Lords when the Last Great Time War with the Daleks breaks out. This time, however, he flees, using a chameleion arch to concal himself as... 14a)Professor Yana in Utopia(Derek Jacobi]] is an older version of The Man with the Rosette. Realising his true identity, he is shot and regenerates into... 15)Harold Saxon(John Simm), first seen at the end of Utopia, who appears in television serials, and books. Seemingly killed in Last of the Time Lords, refusing to regenerate. However, he is resurrected as... 15a)The other incarnation of The Master, as played by John Simm in The End of Time. While he is not the exact same incarnation, it is not a regeneration. This is the last incarnation of The Master that has been seen. NO MORE MONKERY! There is no definitive proof that the Monk is the Master, same goes for the War Chief. The guy who keeps trying to force his beliefs down people's throats should be locked up! He's everywhere! He's a menace!!! ::I thought i was the only one who noticed! I feel a bit sorry for him now. I once entertained the idea myself until i came across all of this, now he's completely put me off the idea. 16:49, November 28, 2012 (UTC) ::Why are you talking to yourself, and pretending that you're two separate people? You seem to like the idea that one person is actually two(or three) separate people. :::Yeah, that's trouble when two people live in the same house and want to argue on the same wiki. Marriage eh!? Maybe i'm not even married and i'm actually the Master trolling the net pretending to be someone else? Everyone else seems to be the Master. :::Joking aside, what is your actual motivation? I find it quite fascinating. A couple of years ago i watched the Time Meddler and the War Games and thought that this guy really could be the Master. Until i saw the reams of information you have spread all over the net. Before that, there was hardly anyone who would go to such great lengths to essentially prove the unprovable but you are everywhere now! Simple question...Why? 17:50, November 28, 2012 (UTC) ::: ::::Good question, but I must warn you that I am also the Master 18:15, November 28, 2012 (UTC) ::::Not you too, that makes you, me, myself and my wife! I'm getting the oddest impression he's just a troll now, he has no point to prove he just wants to annoy people. 18:45, November 28, 2012 (UTC) Total Master The fact is, according to the people who actually wrote the early seasons(as opposed to some chucklehead who got a BBC Enterprises licence during The Wilderness Years), it's the same character. According to the Target Books Novelisations it's the same character. According to the early issues of Doctor Who Magazine, i'ts the same character. According to the FASA Doctor Who role-Playing Game, it's the same character. The first inclination, it's not the same character came when the original Doctor Who was off the air, and then in a licensed product, rather than the tv show, or by the actual creators. Now, much of the spin-offery(but never the TV show itself!) implies it's not the same Time Lord. And fitting all of this into one continuity will be messy. But then, it is actually impossible to fit the "Basil Rathbone" Master of the VNA, the "Stripped-Away" Master of the BFA, the desperate Cheetah Tremas Master of the BBC Books, and the Gordon Tipple Master from The TV Movie into the same timeline! Just like it's impossible to fit The Man With The Rosette(BBC Books), the Friend Trapped In The TARDIS(also BBC Books!), The Preacher(DWM Comics) and Professor Yana from the TV Show into the same continuity! But here they all are!Ceratin products sucha s Timewyrm:Exodus and Legacy Of The Daleks are clearly out-of-sequence encounters. So, with that precedent set, it is not difficcult to use that idea. In fact, the only things that don't fit are the various masters between Survival and Utopia! ::The FASA RPG definately says the War Chief is NOT the Master, but i am aware that it says the Monk is. How do you justify it's inclusion as evidence for the Master both being the Monk and the War Chief? 17:57, November 28, 2012 (UTC) Battle of the undos Do you really want to carry this on until one of us dies of boredom? If not, compromise? 08:58, December 1, 2012 (UTC) :::Ok have it your way, I have all the time in the world. 09:37, December 1, 2012 (UTC) My Master Timeline 1st Incarnation ''William Hughes'' 2nd incarnation ''Magnus from Flashback and Time's Champion'' 3rd Incarnation ''Edward Brayshaw and aborted deformed version (uses atomic energy to complete regeneration)'' 4th Incarnation ''Koschei-Delgado, loses most of his regenerations in Dark Path'' 12th Incarnation ''Roger Delgado and Peter Pratt (badly injured and unable to regenerate)'' 13th Incarnation ''Geoffrey'' Beevers (managed to initiate a partial and final regeneration using the Eye of Harmony) 14th Incarnation ''Anthony Ainley (Reverts to Beevers Master)'' 15th Incarnation Gordon Tipple 16th Incarnation ''Eric Roberts'' 17th Incarnation ''Derek Jacobi'' 18th Incarnation ''John Simm '' I don't list the Monk as an incarnation of the Master because the audio ''Seasons of fear ''has him as his own character alongside the Master and the Rani, as does Quantum Archangel, and the behind-the-scenes information in the fourth season of the Eighth Doctor Adventures audios talks about how he is a character that is not as bad as the Master and more like the Doctor. Also the novelisation of Shada, written by Gareth Roberts, talks about the Monk being seperate individual. Most recently, Steven Moffat has gone into detail about the Rani and the Meddling Monk never returning to Doctor who because people who don't know who they are apparently. The War Chief, on the other hand, never get's a mention these days and only has FASA to contradict the possibility of being the Master, but that is all. Bruce96 (talk) 12:11, December 1, 2012 (UTC) Also Magnus. There's also the version in UNIT:Dominion, which could go anywhere. . :::Ah yes, Alex Macqueen, i thought about updating the list with him but the story itself hasn't got a clear indication of where he comes from. He owns Chancellor Goth's TARDIS which should place him after Pratt and logically Beevers, Ainley and Beevers2, but at the same time he has slight Tersurus fixation, so who knows at this stage. I listened to the behind-the-scenes info and Briggs talked about delving more into this version of the Master at a later date, so we'll see. Big finish may end up contradicting Legacy of the Daleks and having Macqueen as pre-decayed Pratt. Bruce96 (talk) 13:13, December 1, 2012 (UTC) Well, i guess i did enjoy Time's Champion, and it was for a good cause. I seem to remember one of the Big Finish short stories where Seven meets death again and remarked about how her previous champion (the Master) is a lot like her current one (the Monk) and she often mistakes them. I'll look it up. 14:55, December 1, 2012 (UTC) ::::Probably The Tramp's story Bruce96 (talk) 18:40, December 6, 2012 (UTC) Mastermind Have you checked out the trailer for Mastermind on the Big Finish website? Just wondered what you thought about the quote from 'Forgotten' about Edward Grainger factored into the placement? Also have you thought about changing your timeline into something a bit more practical? Possibly like your version above? Personally i think it's difficult to actually number each Master as everything post-Hughes and pre-Delgado(Or Brayshaw) is impossible to know at this stage. I have heard however, that Mastermind is going to explore his life story with some interesting twists!! Bruce96 (talk) 19:00, May 26, 2013 (UTC)